The Say Less Podcast

015 - Is "Community over Competition" just a Cliché...?

• Grace Cacho & Alex Taylor • Episode 15

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In this episode, Alex and Grace dive into the transformative power of community in the creative industry, emphasizing how genuine connection can propel your business and personal growth — without the need for constant competition. From their experiences in local groups to the importance of authentic relationships, they explore how fostering community revives passion, drives sustainability, and enriches both life and work.

Key Topics

  • The origins and evolution of "community over competition" in creative entrepreneurship
  • How early photography communities were formed before industry saturation
  • The shift from in-person to virtual community spaces post-2020
  • Practical ways to build authentic, meaningful connections with peers
  • The importance of serving others without expectations of return
  • How community enhances sustainability, creativity, and mental health
  • The role of small, intentional groups like The Creative Table
  • Differences between collaboration and community, and why both matter
  • Overcoming introversion and fears around big industry figures
  • The value of in-person meetups vs. virtual engagement
  • Turning community into real-world opportunities without a sales-heavy approach
  • Cultivating community within motherhood and balancing personal life


Resources & Links:

The Creative Table for Photographers

The Creative Table Facebook Group


Remember: Building authentic community is about showing up with an open heart, serving others, and embracing the journey. Whether online or in person, the right people will meet you there. So start small, give generously, and let the community find you.

Send us burning questions, topic ideas, and things you’re loving about the podcast!

Connect with Alex & Grace:

Education:

Must-Have Systems

Arisa Haus Creative Marketing Agency

Grace & Andrew Cacho provide clarity to businesses and personal brands by means of Brand Message Clarity, Audits, Brand Strategy, Content Creation, Photo & Video, Web Design, and Social Media Management.

SPEAKER_02

I think the community over competition part of it almost you think if you're competitive enough, then you can like reach the top. But honestly, like if you're willing to serve your community, that's gonna help you all you're ultimately gonna get to the top. And it may not look like what you think. It may not look like being the most influential photography coach on TikTok or whatever. Right. But you're the everything is still gonna be just as rich and even better than if you just had stayed competitive and treated people like rungs on a ladder. I could talk all day about this. But it's a creative table.

SPEAKER_05

No, yeah, and it's important. And what for me, and I know I've touched on this like in other episodes and like this one specifically, like we're wired, especially when you're running your own creative business or a small business, but it's hard to rewire your brains of, yeah, I'm not gonna do this and this isn't worth my time, and there's no value in this because I'm not making a dollar. And going into it with the expectation of I'm just going to put in whatever I can put in because I have this ability, because I have this talent, because I have this God-given blessing to offer these people, whether it be literally like my personality, whether it be I'm going to buy a cup of coffee for so-and-so who's new in the industry that is, you know, a couple of years behind me in their walk of life, and I want to bless them in that way. And you are going to receive from it. Even if it's just a good day or a good connection, a good relationship, you're going to receive. And I'm saying all that to say don't expect to receive anything. But when you cancel out those expectations and you're thinking, well, I'm not making any money, I'm not blah, blah, blah, which isn't the most important thing all the time. I wanted to start a podcast for creative entrepreneurs.

SPEAKER_02

So I asked Alex to join me and I said, stay less, I'm in. Welcome to the Say Less podcast, where we actually say a lot more about motherhood, creativity, photography, business ownership, and everything in between.

SPEAKER_05

We're your hosts, Alex and Grace. And this is a space for creative women building something meaningful. Whether you're raising babies, raising your rates, or just trying to figure out your next move.

SPEAKER_02

We talk about all the real stuff. What's working, what's not, what we're unlearning, what nobody tells you about building a business that has to fit inside a real life.

SPEAKER_05

The pivot, the pressure, the sustainability, and all of the seasons. If you've ever felt like you're creating in the margins of your time, your energy, or your confidence, you're not alone here. So stay lost. Let's get into it. My gosh, okay. I I I'm so excited to begin with this. And you know when we drink too much caffeine and we get into 2x speed and we're like excited and hyped up, and I'm like, I feel that way, but my brain feels that way, and I'm not that caffeinated today yet. I love that. I have a pink Slocholani in the fridge though, like waiting to be cracked. And I'm literally drinking like a triple shot latte. So I'm like, I'm but I'm beginning. But I'm like, my brain with this topic is freaking out because this is crazy. And this is um something I kind of started on 10 years ago. 10 years ago. It just looks different now.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, it doesn't really at the heart, at the root of it, nothing is has changed. It does.

SPEAKER_05

It does. It does. And I think in the middle period, it really was kind of skewed. And um, we're loving to talk about it without even saying what it is. Yeah. Hi, and welcome to our podcast. If you're here today and for the next couple episodes, actually, yeah, next couple, that would be two, couples two. We are talking about community over competition. Remember when we started talking about this, I kept saying collaboration. Yes, I was about to say, Alex kept saying community over collaboration. I don't know why. I was thinking I had a stroke. I don't know why I said that. Community over competition. We're going to talk about how there is room at the table for everyone. And I know what I was mentioning, I was mentioning that it got skewed in the middle. I feel like, do you remember like years and years ago when photography was like not that popular? That's kind of when I started. I hate to be like a hipster in this industry. Um, I accidentally am a hipster in this industry. Like I had no idea that it was gonna be such a popular thing, nor did I know it was gonna be my career. Like, hello. I was in college and was just like, let me see about this, let me see what I think. And then it ends up being like my full-time career 10 years later. Just had no idea. But in the beginning, it was more of a community because there was so few photographers. Yeah. This was a little bit before you started, but it was like there was no, there was not a bunch of photographers. In fact, like this was when it was still like you could go to JCPenney and get your photo done. And I know people still do that, like kind of in like an ironic way. But this was like in the beginning when everything was community because there wasn't so much like exposure to it. I don't even know how to explain it. Like there wasn't a million photographers and like cameras weren't as easily accessible and affordable. People weren't making like careers out of it. This was kind of before like the whole small business movement, right? Right. Yeah. Which I think all took a turn like in 2020 when like COVID, you know, I like try not to say the C word. I try not to say the C word on the podcast. It's fine. But when COVID hit, like there was like such a push towards small business, which was really cool. Which was really cool. Lots of small business support. So I feel like around then that's when it kind of like picked up in the photography world, and then it was really saturated. And I feel like that's when the competition came in. Like now there's a bunch of photographers, and I want to be better than you, and there's not enough clients, and now there's like endless clients. Like everybody wants their picture taken. So hello, there's plenty of room for everyone. But okay, I'm excited. So I kind of just teased everything we're gonna get into, but I kind of want to talk about where it started. Yes, for me. Like you said, you're a hipster. So I didn't mean to be. I didn't mean to be, which is funny, which is fun. But okay, so for those of you that have been listening to our podcast, you know, like our emphasis on Honeybook. We use Honeybook, Honeybook CR. We love Honeybook. If anyone out there in this realm knows anything about it or works there, like hello, we love you. We love you. So basically it's a CRM for photographers. We can use it for emailing and contracts, invoices, all the things. But before it was like a multi-use platform like this, there was like a branch of HoneyBook, and it was called the Rising Tide Society. It was a community that the founders of HoneyBook started, Natalie Frank, who now works at Flowdesk, who's actually a friend of mine. Um, but she has in recent years left Honeybook for bigger and better, not better, different, bigger and different for her in her career and now works at Flow Desk, which is really cool. That's so cool. So we started the rising, yeah. We started the Rising Tide Society as like a community for creative entrepreneurs. And branching off of that, they started Tuesdays together. If you're still following me, thank you for continuing to follow because that was a long little bit. But it was like Honey Book Branch Down, Rising Tide Society Branch Down, Tuesdays Together, which was national meetings for creatives with local leaders. So it was like all over the country, you could find a Tuesdays together group and it was like a local, yeah, like a chapter. And it was like it was monthly meetings and they handpicked leaders. I was a leader, which was really exciting. It was passed down from my friend Sarah, who's also a photographer. She was like transitioning into a different phase of her life and passed it down to me. And I like was interviewed. It was a whole thing. I got to lead the group, which I loved to do. And every month we did like a meetup and Honey Book, Rising Tide Society, would send me all the information. So every month was like a different topic. And it literally was marketing and social media and public outreach and just whatever the monthly topic was. It was really fun. We got together at local businesses. This is when I was still living in Wichita Falls. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I remember being really mad because I couldn't go to the I know.

SPEAKER_05

I know. We we really had like such a great turnout. Like it was, it's such a small town, but we always had like 10 plus people at these meetings. That's a big deal. No, I know. So it was really fun. But we would meet at local businesses once a month, and sometimes it was morning coffee shop, and we tried to do Tuesdays because of like the name, but um sometimes it was like Thursday at the brewery, and we would like all have a beer and like chat over the topic. And I would try to bring in like speakers that were yeah, you know, like for the topic, whatever the topic was, if they were like an quote unquote expert in that field, I would bring them in to talk and it was literally so much fun. Like I did it for years. So I was taking notes before this. I did it from 20 the end of 2019 to the end of 2022. I was a leader of a group. So for like literally, it was like just about three years, almost three years. I like led this group. And when I tell you, I loved it. So, anyways, their whole thing. So the point of me saying all this, I tried to dig deep on this, but they coined community over competition. Yeah, it like began with them. Like, I think I I don't think it's trademarked or anything like that, but they know came up with the phrase. They came up with the phrase. I don't remember it before them, yeah, either. I mean, and so they came up with it, in my opinion. I'm like, I had never heard it before then community over don't correct us if we're wrong. Yeah. Or or like do like where did it come from? Like I just don't think like I'm almost positive that they came up with it. And I mean like it's kind of a general phrase, but I mean, like in this industry, as creative entrepreneurs, they came up with community over competitions. So that was a big thing. And like this was before every single thing was like at the touch of our fingertips, right? They would send like digital guides. And so we would get like our information from there, and we were like following kind of like a curriculum for the thing, but it was like it was like before you could like literally chat GPT and get the answer to anything. Like it was you could Google it and do like a deep dive, but it was really cool. It was like a shakeup to the creative industry. They were sending all this like really relevant new research and like these guides made by like actual experts in these certain fields. And it just it was so much fun. And like I loved getting to connect with the other creative entrepreneurs, it like set me up for other business opportunities. And I know that the people in the group could say the same. Yeah. It was really cool. It's so cool. But that's kind of the thing is like I feel like people still say it, but it's like not lived out as much now. I'm wondering what you think about that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I community over competition. As an introvert, for any of you introverts that are listening, not Alex. Like not me, sorry. I know, sorry. Totally not an introvert. I think even something like that, I might have been too timid to go, truly, but I say that now being able to find so many things from home. But I think emphasis on the community part, it's not what it used to be. Like you said, you can chat GPT everything, you can like do a deep dive if you want to, but with that, you're gonna get lots of different answers, lots of different resources. Maybe things don't line up for like questions you want to know. But I think just something that I've been thinking about lately is like the only way to really last in this industry is like with people. And I think postpartum, just needing people in general more, anyways. I've really gone out of my comfort zone as an introvert because I was like drowning. And I was drowning because it's so easy and comfortable for me to like become a recluse and for me to like put my head down and do my own thing and like wanting to learn all the things and just like going full speed ahead. But you need people uh in order to like survive, first of all, but also like to thrive, especially as a creative, and you can only spur each other on. I think I I can only imagine being in that setting. I've never got to go to a Tuesdays together chapter, but I knew very well what they were. And I can only imagine the conversations that came up and like ideas and inspiration. And I think that's just how it goes, though. I think that's just what happens if in a room full of like-minded people, or maybe they think a little bit differently than you. That's great. Learn something from them. Yeah, and I think that when we're just like on TikTok on our phones looking for photography tips, um, we're it's a little bit too introspective and we like build an audience um instead of like building community, and that's only gonna last so long.

SPEAKER_05

So I love that you know, and I think it's just you know, I love I love that you like touched on it like as a mom too. Cause I know that we touch on like motherhood as far as being a creative entrepreneur on this podcast too. But it's like the community aspect of it is so important as a mom too. So it's like, you know, when I was a leader of Tuesdays together, this was prior to being a mom. I was like a young wife, so recently have been married, but no kids yet. But just having the community outside of your marriage, having the community outside of being a mom and being a person outside of being a mom and outside of being a wife, and yeah, all those things is really, really important. So I love that you say it that way. And I am super extroverted. So that matters for me. It's like when I and my husband, for those of you that don't know my husband, he's also super, he's like an introverted extrovert. I feel like like it he can bring it out when he wants to, but he's just like extroverted. Like you wouldn't guess secret up to that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He is in like small groups, he's like a small group extrovert, but like he's not the loudest person in the room. Whereas like if there's a hundred people in the room, I'm like, hello, attention. Like I can't help myself. I'm like, let me be the loudest. I don't know why, I don't know what's wrong with me. But it's like when he's wanting to refuel, he's like, let me do what I want to do. Let me like listen to my podcast, let me like lay in the bed, let me go to the gym, let me like be alone. And when I'm like, I'm so tired and like my cup feels empty and I want to refill, I'm like, let me hang out with like my 10 closest friends and like literally scream at the top of our lungs. And then like I'm re-energized as an extra person. So community has always been very important to me as a mom, as a person, like especially in the industry. Especially.

SPEAKER_02

Can I ask you a question? Yeah. Uh about Tuesdays together. Did you so candidly, because again, this doesn't exist anymore, Tuesdays together. Yeah, it's gone. It's not a it's not a thing. It's gone. Did you get paid for that as a chapter leader? No, no. Okay. So it's a volunteer permission. And you loved it. I mean, well, if you I mean, you wouldn't have said yes if you didn't love it. So that brings me to this idea of communities, like you have to pay for a lot of them, which I'll get into because I actually have one. Yeah. Playing devil's advocate here, but I'll get into that later. But like paid communities and you pay for these Zoom calls and you pay to be part of these things. There's like Facebook groups, which is not bad, but that I think even Facebook groups have kind of like, I don't know, just replaced not well, but replaced this idea of like getting in person together without there being any sort of like obviously maybe their idea was for people to sign up for Honey Book at the end of the day, but I don't know that there was anything beyond that. But like, where is the let's just get together to talk about things, just to get together to talk about things, instead of it being like part of a funnel or some sales technique or there being like an end result of like I'm gonna earn their trust so I can do this, that, and the other, and like turn it into part of my brand. So I think I think that's why I'm seeing the shift happen a lot more. And I really want to get back to I think it's made me crave like, let's just go get coffee, let's just meet up, let's, you know, just have a FaceTime with a friend. Like it just hasn't made me crave that more. I don't know if you feel the same way or no, I completely agree.

SPEAKER_05

And yeah, it was a volunteer position, um, but I was happy to do it. And it like now everything is so easy. Like you could easily throw something into Chat GBT and be like, give me meeting notes. But like I wrote out the meetings. I would reach out personally to people that I knew, or I'd reach out to find someone that I knew that was an expert in the blank, blank, blank that we were discussing at the meeting, and I'd plan the meeting, and I'd reach out to the owner of wherever we were going to say, Hey, I'm bringing 15 people and can we do this and can I reserve this? And like it was, it was like a labor of love. Like, reminds me of obviously way less detailed and complex than like Caitlin planning like her content days. Caitlin Hayes obviously way less than that. But like I put in so much effort because I loved to do it. Like I loved to connect with these people. I do, and this is the second and last time. And if I ever do it again, reach through the screen and slap me in the face. But like in 2020, I think this is when it kind of all shifted to this like, let's be chronically online and meet up with people only online. And the community aspect of it was taken away from like sitting at a physical table and having this conversation over a beer at the local brewery or ha over a coffee at the cute coffee shop, and is now in our DMs and in our comment sections. It's not living at a physical table, but like a virtual table. And it's like the point still remains of like there is room for everyone. There's room for everyone at the physical table, there's room for everyone at the there's even more room, hypothetically, at a virtual table, but like the connection there is lacking. It's lacking. It's so easy to hide behind the screen in like a performative way. Of it's just less organic and less natural. Of like I was loving your post this week. Um, posting like, that's so good. That's so good. Yeah, like that's so good. And just kind of like crafting your responses versus getting like abs actually like organic feedback and conversations. Yeah, in real life.

SPEAKER_03

Eye to eye.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. Eye to eye. So I feel like in 2020 we lost a lot of that. And I don't want to say it's only bad things, right? Like there was such an advance in technology and in social media and blah, blah, blah. Like there's certainly pros to it. But with this topic specifically, community over competition, it's like getting lost, and I'm needing it to be found again. Um, like, let us circle back. Are we back? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

We're still back. We're still back. I think even staying true to the community over competition, not just collaboration over competition, speaking of our little like miss speak, which I'm gonna use it. Um, but with collaboration, usually there's some sort of exchange where we have to figure out, okay, like what's equal for me and for you. How is this gonna benefit me? How's this gonna benefit you? But when you're just getting together as community, first of all, walking into a room knowing, like, okay, I have something to offer somebody, that's how I'm gonna walk in open-handed instead of like, okay, what can I get in return? Right. Yes. Right. And I think that's the difference, even in well-meaning collaborations between wedding vendors or small businesses. Like, there's always some sort of exchange. Let's get together and just and that will look different for anybody. It may look like 50 people in a room, it may look like two or three people at coffee, but like you're saying, real-time feedback, real-time, I don't know, just like people skills. Like, let's not throw that away either. Yes. I I think that's the difference between even like I feel like people might accidentally interchange like community and collaboration. Like, okay, then let's put on a styled shoot. Like, that sounds like community, and sure it is. But at the end of the day, it's the end result is what am I gonna get out of it? When it really should just be like, I don't know, just getting together because that's good for us. Yes. Just as human beings.

SPEAKER_05

Without being corny, too. I know we kind of discuss this off the pod, but being on the pod has like kind of been that like the community between you and I, the conversations we've been able to have with other people like Caitlin and Shelby and our guests that have been on the podcast and that we're planning to do, and just the conversations you and I have been able to have, our shoot we did together, just to have photos together and like all those things, it has truly, and I know I already told you this, but it has truly reignited my passion for my job because I'm having these conversations with no goal. And those of you that have been listening for a while, you're gonna laugh because it's really true. But when we started this podcast, like I just didn't have a goal. Yeah. It sounds worse than it is, but when we were celebrating over margaritas, Travis, my husband, who is an engineer and is just completely logical and business minded, he's like, So what's the goal? And he's wanting like some metrics of we're hoping to have this many listeners or this many followers or this many blah, blah, blah, or start getting brain-dilled. And it's like I didn't have that. I I do now, and like I've crafted, you know, obviously a few goals realistically. Yeah. But it's like in the beginning, I just was like, I'm 10 years into this industry, and I just need a refresh. I just need like a reignition of the fire and the passion that I have as a creative. And this podcast has given it to me. And I'm saying that because like we haven't made a dollar. We are like losing money on this podcast that's we're spending to do the software and do the thing. And like every penny's been worth it. Because, like, we are I know I I I know I can speak for you when I say like we're both loving it. And Reiving so much from it, but I wasn't expecting to receive. I just was excited to give, but the community aspect of it has like completely like changed everything. And I've been so excited. I get excited to record. I'm excited to listen, which is corny. And it's seriously reignited everything, but it's I'm not making any money here. I'm not making any money. I'm not trying to make any money. I'm not trying to earn anything. I just unknowingly needing the community that you and I have gotten out of this podcast. It's been great.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I think we've known each other for six. Well, we've known each other longer, but we've been working together for six years-ish, roughly. How many, you know, times we've interacted at weddings, yes, but we were working. And then everything else has been like if we're not working together, we've just been like texting or social media. Like it sounds bad, but I feel like just even the podcast. I we, I mean, I'm just like, we should have just FaceTimed and all of our problems would have been met just as equally, probably. But here we are with the podcast. We're already into it. That's fine. Yeah. Yeah, it's fine. Like, here we are.

SPEAKER_05

This could have been like instantly, you know, when you see those names at all. It could have been an email, but it's like could have been an email, but could have been a FaceTime, but it's okay. We'll just start a podcast so we can just talk more. Man, that's so funny. We just needed to have like a couple conversations and we're like, let's just start a podcast and just literally so funny. That's bad. Oh man, that's true. Yeah, it's true.

SPEAKER_02

I think maybe we were just craving conversation, especially because we're very similar in timing coming out of postpartum with second babies.

SPEAKER_05

Right.

SPEAKER_02

I think that there was just some, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Um just kind of in the same phase currently. Yeah. We're just needing the community in motherhood and in the business. And this was, you know, when before we started the podcast too, this was kind of when weddings were up in the air for you. Yeah. So gosh, yeah. Like, yeah. I'm like, I know that feels like a century ago already, but like really, like we were in quite a shift. And then this is me going into my 10th year being like, am I too old? Like, have I lost my touch? Like, I really was feeling like discouraged in the industry of like the other photographers are 20 years old and can immediately buy all the new brand new equipment and are following trends and are able to photograph the TikTok moments that like I'm not seeing. And I was feeling really discouraged. And then this is totally reignited everything of I actually know what I'm doing, and I can like speak with authority on my experience in what I have and what I have to offer. And there's just been so much value in having these conversations with you. And I haven't earned anything financially, which I know is our conversation we had with Caitlin too. This is what the third time I've referenced our conversation with her. But it's like I in the middle there struggled with if I'm not making any money, it's not worth my time. And now that I'm 10 years in, I'm like, let me not make any money so that when I am making money, there's more value to it. Like I'm excited to do it and not thinking like there's pressure because I have to make money, there's expectations because I'm trying to make money. It seriously was just like, let me love this again.

SPEAKER_02

Let me like be in community with like-minded so I can love this again. Yeah. I think another thing, which we've talked about with AI stuff, you know, you can have conversations with Chat GPT all day long. Chat GPT is probably gonna tell you it's like a mirror of yourself, probably, and it's gonna tell you a lot of what you want to hear. But I think even conversations we've had on the podcast with each other and others, a lot of that has bled into how I do business and how I talk about other things to other people when I'm getting my hair done. And like, what am I talking about when I'm just sitting there? And I think it just makes everything about what you have to offer a lot richer. So I think that's even kind of the some of the value that you're hitting on. It's like you have the experience, but you also have like all these different perspectives that you're getting to hear all the time without a price tag attached to it, which I think takes a lot of the pressure off and just makes it just a lot sweeter, in my opinion. Yeah. So yes, agree.

SPEAKER_05

Agree. You were talking about like different types of community and joining communities that like have something to offer, some that lead to offers. And I like want you to talk about the creative table. So I know we've talked about it, and just so everyone on the podcast knows, I am a part of the creative table, but um, it is not my product, so I'm not pushing it for any reason. Grace has started this community, and um, I'm just saying, like, I'm not trying to like sell it for you. Like, it truly is remarkable what you're doing, in my opinion, and it's great. And I want you to discuss it. Yeah, I know Grace is worried to sound salesy, but like it is truly valuable. So I want you all to hear it from her because it's worth the look into.

SPEAKER_02

So discuss it. So I already touched on coming out of postpartum. I just I have been craving community. I think in since I had my firstborn, Aria, I've been trying to do something with community in some way. I did a like monthly gathering for women who we just like came together and did worship. And I had a like a speaker come in and it was just like really sweet, and like you could get prayed for. So like that kind of ended when Asa was born, my secondborn. And I really had hopes to relaunch it, but it was just a lot of work and I was doing it all kind of myself, and it was monthly, and I was like, what can I do? That's like maybe more in my wheelhouse that is kind of the same caliber because I do still want that community. It was just so sweet, I got a little taste of it, but my hands are like full in photography right now, and that's something that I feel like I've lacked is photography community in my head. I walk into a room of female photographers and like everybody's mean. I don't know what that is in my head, but it's like maybe it's just I don't know, like issues I've had with girls growing up. I don't know.

SPEAKER_05

But that's crazy. Because in my mind, if I like walk into a room of female photographers, I'm thinking like that like it's fake. And not that like the walking into the room is fake, sure, but that like what's seen online versus what's in real life is fake. Yeah, like and we're all like trying to measure up to that. Yeah, yes. And like what I know about so-and-so photographer, I'm not thinking of anyone specifically, but maybe like photographers that we idolize, and I use idolize like loosely, obviously, but like I photographers that we strive to be, that we hold on a higher pedestal. And then I I always think like if I were in a room with them or working with them, what would the experience be like? So that's what I that's where my mind always goes. Um, not so much mean, but more so like what's the reality?

SPEAKER_02

Which could be mean. Yeah, totally could be mean.

SPEAKER_05

That's obviously they're not mean online. Yeah, they're not mean online, so they might be mean and realistic.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, you just never know. Maybe that's like part of where it stems from, too, is like you don't really know people. And it's just like exactly I know this image of you isn't gonna match what I'm gonna experience, and it could be good or bad. Um, and it's just like also putting yourself out there is really scary. Like, as an introvert, I can be introverted when I need to be, but that sounds painful walking in. Yeah, and I've done it before.

SPEAKER_05

I've gone I have to tell you this. I have to tell you this. My friend Melissa that listens to our podcast, she was saying she was like, at some point, she can't tell if it's me talking or you talking. And she was like, Y'all talk exactly the same and like have the same sense of humor. And I was like, that's so funny because like we're actually so opposite in real life, which is like I was so different. Like, I mean, obviously we look different, like that goes without saying. I know people aren't always seeing the clips, but like she was saying that we have like the same the way that we talk is the same and kind of the same sense of humor, which I was like, I think both of us would totally disagree on that. But I'm like, I was I was honored. I was like, I hope I sound like her. And then I was like, she doesn't want to sound kooky like me, but I thought that was hilarious because I was like, no, we're like totally opposite, and I'm like screaming full volume all the time, and like you're speaking with brilliance and thought, and I'm like word vomiting every day on the podcast. But I just thought that was hysterical, anyways. So you're saying yes.

SPEAKER_02

Um, so I don't even know how I got into that. Just uh oh yeah, wanting community. So in my head, because I'm an entrepreneur, I'm always thinking some sort of business strategy. Like always, always. I can't help it. I can't turn it off. Honestly, I'm like, I wish I could turn it off and just enjoy life sometimes. But I created the creative table and I kind of started thinking about it as I really wanted a no-strings attached community, somewhere people could go consistently for free. And I I just I I live in a small town. I'm technically DFW, but I don't live in Dallas. I'm very, very far north of Dallas, almost in Oklahoma. So I'm up here. And so the creative table, I wanted it to not just be photographers too. I really want, especially after doing this podcast, I was very inspired after talking to Caitlin, the fourth time we referenced her, I think, on this podcast. Yeah. Our podcast with Caitlin. If you haven't listened to it, go listen to it. Yeah. About styled boots and and being inspired. Um, but I was very inspired. And so I think it was just like days after that that I kind of launched the creative table community. Um, and so I do there is a Facebook group. And I know it's like Facebook, it's not my favorite, um, but that's where everybody is in all different walks of life and all different ages. And I didn't want to put like an age cap on it because you can be a 60-year-old antique store owner and still be really cool, like just as cool as the 20-year-old photographer who is whatever with the times and the trends. And I think there's value that can go both ways there. And so I really wanted something that would start digital but end up being in a room, which I'm still working on that for like the overall creative entrepreneurship group. And that has like maybe 30 people in it, and most of those are local, but it's really fun. And I'll just throw out some encouragement every once in a while. But the the goal is for people to be able to say, like, hey, I'm like, is there a bookkeeper in here? Is there a cake business owner in here? Like people just to be able to get together more, or maybe you see like mutual friends that are in there. So that's kind of open-ended. I'm not sure what my thing is there, honestly, just to create more conversation, like with the podcast. Um, but I really wanted something specifically for photographers too, just because that is that's my job. It's my love. I love what I'm doing. And we have about a dozen girls in there right now, which is awesome. Alex is in there too. I do keep it, I like to say I keep it very small but intentional. So I it's like five dollars a month. And basically I'm putting on a styled shoot every month, and like whoever can come can come. I had a girl post in there that is looking for second shooting opportunities because she's just started and she's been doing families and newborns, and she really would love the opportunity to second shoot for some people. And I have like half of us in there have been in the industry for five plus years, and then the other half started like six months ago. So it's really fun to kind of see people in there talking. Yeah. Yeah. It's just been really cool. Like we're not all professionals, right? But it it's just, yeah, it's fun and it's casual. Um, like we're doing a meetup in May. That was the first one I set up, actually. We're doing, well, this will already this this will probably already have happened by the time this episode comes out. But beginning of May, we're getting coffee and then we're gonna go and walk a block and I'm gonna do headshots for everybody. I just wanted so much of photography has been transactional and it's been a long time since I've been able to just like serve people. Um, and I think one of our very first episodes, you were like, I feel like I'm getting to a place in my business where I can just like bless people because I want to. And I think that should be the end goal is like I don't want it to just end with me. Like, how can I continue to serve other people? So I'm like, this is exciting, it's gonna be great. Just I'm so excited. And like there's a girl in our group, her name is Bailey. She is DFW. I'm doing quotation marks, um DFW, but I found out we live like 10 minutes from each other. My gosh, and we got coffee, and she's like about to have a baby, and it's just we are texting now, and like that's the kind of I don't know, that's it's just been so cool. Um don't let it stop in your Instagram DMs because that's kind of where it started for us. Go the extra mile in building community with somebody if you can in person. I mean, obviously people live across the country and they can't get together like that, but um this isn't again with the creative table. This isn't to, I mean, this cre this community is meant to inspire people and also just to remind you like most of us are business owning people, women, and it can get really lonely. And I think you said since 2020, we had to learn how to like build a business first of all, but now we don't have you know required team meetings, we don't have fun days or whatever. Like, we have to do that ourselves.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And so I think our co-workers, if you will, the other people in my industry, I'm gonna get to know them. Um I wanna be able to refer people. So yeah, at the end of the day, Alex said, like, this isn't a pitch, and this isn't really a pitch for me either. It's like, I'm doing what I can with what I have. What are you doing with what you have? What are you able to do? It doesn't have to be a whole community that you put a price tag on or whatever. Just what is the need and how can you fill it? It's so crazy. And this is kind of the last thing I'll say about this. But um, I told my husband going into the month of March, I had signed myself up to do a lot of just I want to bless you with pictures. And I didn't tell my husband because it was like five or six shoots where I was like, I really just want to I just do that all the time. I'm like, I just want to do these for you. Like, let's just do them and it'll be so fun. And then go to um, but I had gone kind of overboard. And do you know that like that was the best month that we've had in my books, like financially, like for photography specifically, because my husband does other jobs, but like for photography specifically, and um I love Jesus, and there's um you talk about like sowing and reaping, and sowing that seed into people, you don't sow the seed to expect something to happen because you don't know and you might get a result from it, but it could, I mean, and then you know, you get something back, and then what else can I do? Like always, I don't know. I think the community over competition part of it almost you think if you're competitive enough, then you can like reach the top. But honestly, like if you're willing to serve your community, that's gonna help you, you're ultimately gonna get to the top. And it may not look like what you think. It may not look like being the most influential photography coach on TikTok or whatever, right? But you're everything is still gonna be just as rich and even better than if you just had stayed competitive and treated people like rungs on a ladder. I could talk all day about this, but no, it's a creative table.

SPEAKER_05

No, yeah, and it's important. And what for me, and I know I've touched on this like in other episodes and like this one specifically, like we're wired, especially when you're running your own creative business or a small business, but it's hard to rewire your brain to be like, it's not the most important thing for me to make money, because if you are a creative entrepreneur, it's almost, I can almost positively say like your income is inconsistent. Yeah, I make you know, 90% of my money in March because April is my busiest month. And then in September, because October is always my busiest in November. And so it's like, I know those times of year are gonna be heavy, but like in July, I like may make zero dollars. I think last July I made zero dollars. But it's hard as like a creative entrepreneur to rewire your brain of, yeah, I'm not gonna do this and this isn't worth my time, and there's no value in this because I'm not making a dollar and going into it with the expectation of I'm just going to put in whatever I can put in because I have this ability, because I have this talent, because I have this God-given blessing to offer these people, whether it be literally like my personality, whether it be I'm going to buy a cup of coffee for so-and-so who's new in the industry that is, you know, a couple of years behind me in their walk of life, and I want to bless them in that way. And you are going to receive from it, even if it's just a good day or a good connection, a good relationship, you're going to receive. And I'm saying all that to say don't expect to receive anything. But when you cancel out those expectations and you're thinking, well, I'm not making any money, I'm not blah, blah, blah, which isn't the most important thing all the time. She tells herself, she tells herself, knock, knock, doesn't always matter to make money. But if I'm able to bless these people with this, I'm going to receive even just a blessing of relationship and love in return. How is that not, how is that not everything? Yeah. Like, how is that not like the reason of sorry? But like, is that the meaning of life? And did I just solve it? Like, did I just answer didn't we just answer the question of like, what's the meaning of life? Blessing people and in turn receiving blessings. Hello. I just did that. No, what you said is great. And I I applaud you and why I said what you're doing is remarkable as far as the community. I think it's so important because I do think 2020 shifted everything to be online. Um, and I loved 10 years ago when everything wasn't so accessible that it was like the only way you're going to learn is from so and so. And if you get together with this group of people, then you're going to be able to grow as a human and as a business owner and as a photographer and as a creative entrepreneur and as a mom, you're going to learn, you're going to grow with these people. And then, you know, somewhere in 2020 in the middle there, we kind of like lost off the plot. You knew I was going to say that. You knew I was going to say that in my favorite line. We lost the plot for a little bit of um now it's saturated, now everything's online, and let us just stay there. And you're bringing us back out away from the virtual table at a physical table of let us serve each other and let us learn from each other and let us love each other and be in community and not in competition because there is enough business for everyone. Yes. There's enough.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I don't there's enough. Earlier, you were saying, like, I don't know that photography has been more saturated than it is right now. But somehow, I mean, somehow we're still getting jobs. I tell my husband, like, unless the world goes to poop and we can't use our cameras anymore for whatever reason, everybody's gonna want their picture taken. Not a sob.

SPEAKER_05

Do you know that? And this is like totally a rabbit hole I shouldn't go down. But um, this is gonna be really hard to imagine. But approximately like 15 to 18 years ago, prior to starting college, how old am I? 30. So 18, so 12. About 15 years ago, I decided I like wanted to be a nurse. We're just like, whoa. I'm like, whoa, if you're listening to this and you're a nurse, just know that I love you. And um, not only could I never do it, I couldn't even get started because no, um, because I it not for me and I don't have the heart for it. But anyways, love you. I wanted to do that because in my brain, what I like literally told myself is like no matter where we are in life, like nurses are always gonna be needed. Super important will I'm emphasizing that, not taking away from it. I just don't have the heart. Like I mean, this is and like and this is what I'm saying. Like this is like exactly this is like talking before thanking, like exactly. I just know I do not have the heart to be a nurse or a teacher, and I think those are very important roles. And those people have very special intentional hearts that I do not have, and I'm grateful for them. So that's my point. But I'm just saying when I started in this industry, I was like, I well, when I wanted to be a nurse, I was like, there's always a need. There's always a need for a nurse, there's always a need for a teacher. Like, these are, you know, good routes. I never considered being a teacher, but I'm just proving my point of that. But it's like as a photographer, when I started 10 years ago, it was not saturated. And I was like, this cannot be my career because like there's not always money to be made in it. And I always was working another job on top of being a photographer because there were months and months that I like had no work and had nothing to do and had like no income. But then it like shifted a few years ago, where you know, just the rise of social media and people wanting pictures to post, which I love. Um, and people have always gotten married. And as everyone knows, I'm a wedding photographer. So there's always that. But even with it being so saturated, back to the point, I told you I was going down that rabbit hole. I had to go. My brain was asking me to go. I decided to go and I'm back. I'm back to the point. It is so saturated, but I've still consistently booked as many weddings this year and last year as I truly always have. I take, you know, between 10 and 15 weddings a year, depending on location and life and things. And I have 12 booked for the year. And like I just am blessed to continually book and happy to, but I'm like, it's completely saturated, but there's still room for everyone and there's plenty of work still. So the competition just needs to be wiped out. Let us not be in competition anymore. And last bit I'll say, I'm on a I'm on a soapbox. I'm about to sit down, but I'm not yet. I'm about to, but I'm not about to step down. Mayce and I are huge proponents on finding a photographer that fits you and finding a creative entrepreneur, small business owner that fits you. I think if I take a job, like if I were to book a bride or a client that isn't the right fit for me, that I am truly stealing that job from someone else who is a better fit, who is a better fit. And that's community over competition. I am not in competition with Grace. Grace and I shoot weddings, we shoot them together, we shoot them separate. I am not in competition with you. I do not feel threatened by you. I don't want to compete with you. And just know that I am speaking your name in rooms of if this isn't the right fit for me, it's the right fit for Grace. I'm not the right personality fit for so and so. You're gonna love Grace. Like, just know that's the point. That's the point. The plot has returned. Yeah. My favorite line, you know. This whole thing.

SPEAKER_02

How long is this episode? Oh my god. Really? It's gonna be long, but I love it. I love it. I don't even know I'm a off topic, but not really. I had a wedding coordinator friend of mine message me. She was like, I'm on my way to a wedding and I've just I've already binged episodes one through eight. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_05

I know I love you.

SPEAKER_02

If you're listening to this, we love you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so wow, that's that's a lot. That's a lot of what we could continue talking about this for an hour, but obviously we don't need to. No, we don't. No, I think that community, like in-person community, has always been essential. I think again, 2020, rewired, it rewired all of us. And I remember a lot of people saying, like, we have to find a new normal. And I think it's just taken this long for us to realize like what was happening before this big technology shift and like social media being amplified and everybody's on it and everybody's wanting to work for themselves. Before this really happened, community really was treated as essential. And you went to networking events because you knew there was value in it. I mean, obviously that's like coming from a more salesy place, but yeah, yeah, I think we're just this is another one of those conversations that is slowly going to be changing the narrative back to let's meet in person and let's you know stop putting a price tag on everything. I keep having to justify, like I do have a community that is five dollars a month. It is purely because I am coordinating styled shoots and things like that. Um I I feel like if there's 50 people that come in just because it's free, it becomes oversaturated and loses some value just from there being too like so many people in there. So it really truly is like if you want to come in, come in. You know, come in for less than a, you know, less than the price of a coffee. But I do I just think we're getting back to like community is essential. And I'm like a little bit depressy without it.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. And it just like it looks different now. Like we are getting back to it, but it does look different. And just to like bring it full circle, like the Tuesdays together aren't the same anymore, but we're we're coming back to that, just in this different sense of keeping up with how far technology has come in the last, you know, that was eight years ago, seven, eight years. It just looks different. I mean, I know you touched on this on your on your Instagram too, but you were talking about creating community and not only creating audiences and emphasizing that. And just because you have 10,000 Instagram followers, which I don't, by the way. Which we don't, we don't have that many. Yeah. I'm like, and I don't care to. I don't care to have no actually, I did have one viral post. I was about to say, I don't care to go viral, but I did have one viral post, which was really fun and exciting. Um, I had a couple that I love and they stopped at Bucky's. Did you see my post about this? Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So it literally has like millions of like views and like 8,000 something likes, and like I only have like 2,000 followers. So it was really exciting. That was exciting and like it did deserve the attention because it was fun and whatever, but like I don't feel that I need thousands and thousands of followers and that like I'm reaching for that goal. I know I already kind of exposed myself that I'm not the best at making goals, but I don't have the goal of 10,000 followers or yeah, reaching a certain status on social media. I just like hope that my post reaches the right people, my community of my Western brides that are getting married in small town America that I love to serve. Um, and that's happening. So I can't complain. It just all looks really different now. And taking emphasis off of creating audiences and more about the community aspect of sitting at a table where you're the right fit, even. Yeah. And not just being the loudest person in the room, she tells herself, or being the most popular, she tells herself, but being the most popular, but actually finding the community where you fit in and that's serving you well. Right now, for me, I'm loving the creative table, just so you know. I'm loving everything you have going on. I can't wait for the coffee meetup, yeah, which will have already happened by the time we launch this episode, which is just okay, because there will be another. There will be another. So I'm so excited. Be on the lookout. Yeah. And if you're a creative entrepreneur, please look in our show notes for information for Creative Table and join us. There's no pressures to do anything or go anywhere, blah, blah, blah. But join me on CPU. There's no sale. We're not selling anything. We're just like selling wanting to have copy, coffee, coffee with you. That's a copy. And copy. We're gonna have coffee and coffee with you. Copy and paste, and that's it. And that's the tea. Yay! I know that was so good. I'm like, we just talked so bad for so long. We just haven't even opened my Awani yet, but I'm about to, which is scary. Let us get just kidding.

SPEAKER_02

No, I think I think we are gonna spend a little bit more time touching on this, but on I think a more a more personal, a more personal level. Yeah. But yeah, just do what you can with what you have as far as community goes. Start with one person, and yes, I think you'll be surprised at how far it expands from there.

SPEAKER_05

Bless people and do things that fulfill your heart and soul as a person and as a mom and as a creative entrepreneur, and find your community. And if you haven't found it, join ours. You're welcome. Here we are. We are, yeah, we are. Come on. Come on. Oh my god, I can't wait. I can't wait for more of this. Yeah, I'm so inspired and excited.

SPEAKER_02

Me too. All right, y'all. We'll talk to you next time. Bye. Bye.