The Say Less Podcast

005 - Packing Batteries & Pump Parts

• Grace Cacho & Alex Taylor • Episode 5

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0:00 | 47:52

When Mom Life Meets Wedding Life: A Raw Look at the Balancing Act

In this heartfelt episode of the Say Less Podcast, hosts Alex and Grace dive deep into the realities of juggling motherhood and a creative career in photography, especially on those crazy wedding days. From packing pumps to managing emotions, discover how these moms navigate the chaos with humor, grace, and honesty.

In this episode:

  • The emotional and physical layers of being a mom and wedding photographer simultaneously
  • How experience and industry evolution shape our new normal
  • Practical packing tips for wedding days—breast pumps, snacks, and everything in between
  • The importance of setting boundaries and communicating them clearly to clients
  • Managing guilt, perfectionism, and the importance of self-care through boundaries
  • The impact of motherhood on creativity and storytelling
  • Personal stories of mishaps, brain fog, and how postpartum experience shifts perception
  • Building sustainable rhythms that honor both work and family without stress
  • Embracing imperfection and presence over perfection

Remember, life with kids and a creative career is a balancing act, but you don't have to do it alone. Embrace the chaos, honor your boundaries, and celebrate your unique story. We’re right there with you... Saying less and LIVING more!

Send us burning questions, topic ideas, and things you’re loving about the podcast!

Connect with Alex & Grace:

Education:

Must-Have Systems

Arisa Haus Creative Marketing Agency

Grace & Andrew Cacho provide clarity to businesses and personal brands by means of Brand Message Clarity, Audits, Brand Strategy, Content Creation, Photo & Video, Web Design, and Social Media Management.

SPEAKER_02

This is the Sayless Podcasts and we are your hosts, Alex and Grace. Today's episode is for the photographers who have a camera in one hand and a baby monitor in the other. We're talking about what happens when mom life meets wedding life, when you're editing galleries during nap time, when you're packing your camera bag and your pump bag, when you love your babies deeply and you still love the buzz of a wedding day, because on Instagram, it looks seamless because behind the scenes, it's layered, it's physical, it's emotional, and sometimes it can be a lot. That is just the truth. If you've ever shot a first look while hoping you don't leak through your dress, if you've ever missed bedtime for golden hour, if you've ever felt ambitious and maternal at the same time and wondered if that was allowed, this one is for you. Let's dive in. I wanted to start a podcast for creative entrepreneurs. So I asked Alex to join me and I said, say less, I'm in. Welcome to the Say Less podcast, where we actually say a lot more about motherhood, creativity, photography, business ownership, and everything in between.

SPEAKER_01

We are your hosts, Alex and Grace, and this is a space for creative women building something meaningful. Whether you're raising babies, raising your rates, or just trying to figure out your next move. We talk about all the real stuff.

SPEAKER_02

What's working, what's not, what we're unlearning, what nobody tells you about building a business that has to fit inside a real life.

SPEAKER_01

The pivots, the pressure, the sustainability, and all of the seasons. If you've ever felt like you're creating in the margins of your time, your energy, or your confidence, you're not alone here. So stay less. Let's get into it. Today we're talking about something that I don't think gets discussed enough in the wedding industry. It's certainly discussed in my group, in my circle, in the photographers that I work with that are also moms, but I don't hear it enough. In general, I'm not seeing it on social media, but I'm wanting to talk about what it looks like when mom life and wedding life collide. Yeah. When they come together. I know in the last episode, um, if you listen to it, I kind of touched on this, but I started shooting weddings when I was 20 years old, two zero. My almost four-year-old daughter loves to say two zero three zero. I'm now three zero. I'm now 30 years old. And wedding days have been looking, started to look a lot different. Um, it's it's been really interesting because the emotions are different as a mom, but packing is really different. Um, the mental checklist is running in the background nonstop of let me make sure I have my 35 and my 85 and my 50 and extra batteries and the SD cards and all the things that I need, but also I need my pub. And also I need my milk carrier, make sure it has ice in it, and I need snacks because I'm hungry. And I need this and I need that that I didn't used to need when I was 20 shooting weddings. All I needed was a change of shoes so that I could um put on a cuter pair of shoes and meet up for my friends and do a little bar hop. But um, now that I'm 3-0, now that I'm 30, I need a change of shoes because my dogs be barking. The dogs be barking, and I need my snacks and I need my cooler and I need all the things. But I want to talk about it. I want to bring this conversation up because if you're a mom and you're shooting weddings, you know the tension. Yeah. There is the stress behind this is someone's most important day, but it's also a day where you need your body to function.

SPEAKER_02

And I think as like a wedding photographer, there's a lot of um like glamour on social media. Like it's all pretty pictures. And I think this is just stripping away at that a little bit and showing like really the reality of all the little things that you have to do now that go into like your mental checklist, not just being a photographer that already exists, but like a mom now too.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And like when I was 20, and I I keep going back to it, but I do have 10 years of experience. So I'm not saying that as a flex. I'm using that as a I do have the experience, but things have evolved so much. Yeah. The industry has evolved, but I as a person have evolved and that's changed a lot. I have this, Grace knows because she knew me back in this day. I have this black jumpsuit that I wore for four years. Like I literally wore the same, the same. Like I didn't have the like the same style in multiple. I don't know how you didn't have like major BO, like from wearing it all. Usually was washing it in borax, like like stripping like the nastiness from it. Like only wear it for weddings. Like I didn't wear it like in everyday life or whatever. So it was like my uniform. And let me tell you that thing does not fit. Thang does not go, which I had the one, I know I sent you the picture. I had one that I wore for so many years too. Um, and I broke the zipper. Do you remember? It was the wedding day. Yep. On the wedding day, just ripped it right up the back. Luckily, I had like a sweater and I put it on with it, and I just went on with a breeze like right up my butt crack. Like I just had to go with it. But yeah, um, my body has changed, my business has changed, my body has changed. And so I kind of wanted to bring this topic up and I want to go over a couple things with it, but I also want to talk really specifics of yes, how I pack for wedding day and how I prepare now as a mom and what I what I pack and how I prepare. Like I just said, it's more than 10-hour timelines. It's also breastfeeding and how I can squeeze that in. And really, the long story short, it's a lot of preparation and it's a lot of loyalty to my team. Grace being included, but um, Angel, who's also on my team, lots of trust on my team and training that I'd set forth of I trust these people to run everything for me because I need a few minutes here.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I do have a great wearable pump plug at. I'm like, which one do I have? The spectra. I have this. No, I'll have to think about it. The LV stride. I'm like, it's okay. Not spectra. I have the LV stride. So I am able to stick it in and continue to shoot. Um, but no, no one should have any guilt or any shame in like wanting to take a moment privately to pump as well, because I lack in modesty and a filter, as I know you guys are learning now, so I don't mind doing that. But I want to talk about the postpartum brain fog. It's real and the creative pressure. And then you have the mom guilt and the ambition, which is kind of what we want to discuss on this podcast in general, is like we have the ambition. We have the ambition as a creative entrepreneur and as a mom. And it can coincide with having the guilt, but you can be ambitious and maternal at the same time. Yeah. You can love your babies deeply and you can love your work too. But sometimes that temp that tension can feel like it's pulling you in half. So that's kind of been gosh, we could just end the episode right there. Period. Be ambitious and maternal at the same time. Say at the same time. Yeah. Mom guilt has probably been one of my greatest struggles as a mom in the last few years. And one of my really good friends told me one time that bad moms don't struggle with guilt. Yeah. And that has like really sat with me. I try to just rid my brain of the guilt in general when it does come up because I'm like, I love being a mom more than I love anything else. I am passionate about weddings and I'm passionate and ambitious with my work. I've been doing it for so long. I want to continue doing it. Yeah. But I'm going to be a mom longer than that.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And it matters to me more. It just does. But I have guilt in certain things on wedding days. I have to, I mean, I'm like, I'm packing my pump and I'm packing my cameras and I'm packing a little sign of guilt. It's a little, I'm just packing it in because I'm gonna have it throughout the day of my husband and my kids are doing this and I'm missing it. Yeah. And it's totally the duality of motherhood of like, I'm enjoying both things.

SPEAKER_02

You know, I'm just remembering my first wedding back after having Aria. I text you specifically. I don't know why this is making me so emotional right now. I text you specifically. I think you might have texted me this thing again, where we're like, who texts who first? It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. There was so much thoughtfulness in what you said to me about like, yes, it's so hard to leave, but just know like your babies are taken care of. And when you come back, remember that like reunion is gonna be so sweet. It's just gonna like make up for all of the time that again, like I felt guilty or I was missing them. Like they're literally in the best hands that I could have put them in between because Andrew was with me. It was like the first time we worked a wedding. I remember and our first day that Arya didn't see either one of us, and it was just so hard. And you just reassured me you're gonna have this moment. Yeah, you're gonna have this moment when you reunite with them, and it's just gonna be like you were never apart. And that helped me so much for the eight to nine hours that we were actually gone from home.

SPEAKER_01

So that's so sweet that you remember that. And honestly, I'd forgotten about it until you said it, but it's true, and I genuinely believe in not only absence of the heart does, you know, what's the saying? Absence makes my heart grow fonder. Grow fonder. Yeah, totally. But it's also like I'm a better mom when I take care of myself too.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And I know like working isn't self-care. I always have to remind my husband that working isn't self-care. It's like, yes, I do enjoy my job and I'm lucky and blessed in that way, but it's still not self-care to work. But your kids are okay. They'll be okay. Yes. Also, they don't have a concept of time. Yeah. Which is what I always like to remember myself. Cause like when I'm working, I'm like checking my watch and I'm like, okay, only a few more hours. Okay, three more hours. Like, okay, I'll see them in four hours. And I count it down, and I'm like, they don't know. And they're like asleep most of the time. Like they're napping, like they're not missing me.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And you totally do. You think and you miss them. And then you get home and you're like, oh my God, I missed you. And like, this is the best day of my life. Yes. It's refreshing to take a little break and be away and not just when they're sleeping and not just to work. That's really sweet that you remembered that. I do remember that day. And I do remember saying it's gonna be a better reunion. They're well taken care of and they don't have a concept of time. I think that's what I told you. Yeah. Yeah. So good.

SPEAKER_02

I kind of interrupted your like pumping thoughts. Oh, I love you. No, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I'm gonna go back to the pumping for sure. So, yeah, so packing a pump. I have pumped in bridal suites. I have pumped in the bathroom. I have pumped in my car. That's honestly like my personal favorite place, yeah, is to pump in my car because I feel like I can get some air blowing. I'm like, we're um Texas based. I don't know if we've mentioned that before. We were Texas based. So odds are we're shooting a wedding and we're also dribbling sweat between our babies and down our backs. Yep. So having car AC is nice. I've pumped everywhere, but the way that I like to schedule my pumping is the cushion time when you're shooting details. So during that time you're shooting details. So I usually need to pump like after I drive. We're DFW-based Texas photographers. So I usually have at least an hour to drive to wherever I'm going. And then, you know, I'm on a pumping schedule of just about every two hours, three max or so. So it works out for me to drive to my location, kind of get settled in, and then shooting the details and decor is usually not face to face, obviously. So I like to pump during that time. I like to pump in the cushion time prior to ceremony. So when the bride and groom and the wedding parties are tucked away and you have about 30, 45 minutes prior to the ceremony starting, I pump in that window of time as well. And then I like to pump when I'm eating dinner. And I like to eat and pump at the same time. So this is post-ceremony, post-family photos, post-couple photos, eating dinner, have my pump in. It's pre speeches, dances, all the things at reception. And then I'll put them away at that time. And then I usually sometimes I pump during the party, but honestly, my milk flow in the evening is lower. I don't know if anyone, I'm like, my body's just like, we've given you enough. Like we have done all we can do. You need to sleep and we'll be able to do that. You need to rest and then we'll give you more. Exactly. So sometimes I'll pump during dance party reception, but typically I'll wait until I'm leaving. So after the sparkler exit, the exit of whatever kind, I will go and kind of like reset all of my stuff. I do use the method of keeping my pumps in a bag and I put them in the fridge at the venue. Great. In the case that this isn't possible, I do bring like a cooler. So I have a cooler with ice packs, all that stuff. So I can keep my pump in it. I keep my pump wipes. And then I have like a milk cooler that I keep like ice in and I can pour my milk in. So I keep all of that separate, but it's it's changed. The mental load has changed between, oh gosh, did I bring extra batteries for my flash, which is something that I historically and statistically forget 50% of the time, is those double A batteries that go into my flash. But did I bring my flanges? Right. Do I have extra pieces? So I had this, I have to tell this story because it's crazy. You weren't at this wedding with me, Grace. Um, another one of my associates, Emily, was with me this day. And I was, I had some issues with the DJ, which is another story for another time. But every once in a while I get a DJ where they don't inform me with kind of what's going on. Yeah. We were sitting like in kind of the back area where like the fridge is where there's a little table, a couple chairs. And if you're a photographer, you know we want to be, we were tucked away. We were having a meal. We were hidden. We were hidden. It was delicious getting out of the ball. But yeah, but like we hide. But we always are. Yeah. We always hide. Like we want to chat, we want to eat. We don't want to like communicate with the guests, no offense. We're just like on a little break. Everyone that works in the eight plus hour shift gets a little break. Uh-huh. I was on my little break. I was pumping at this time, and the DJ decided to start the speeches. And we were sitting in the back room. This happened last year. So I'm like, you know, I'm years into this. This was not like one of my first, like, this should not have happened. Yeah. This was not my fault. Yeah. And no one noticed. That's the other thing that happens with weddings, is because like I wanted to beat myself up over it and no one noticed. But I have my two pumps in and I have the LV stride. So it goes into my bra, the two cups. It has like the cord, attaches on both. I have like a machine that's connected to like the tubing. He starts, he starts the speeches, and I was like freaking out. Like I couldn't believe it. So I like jump out of my chair and I'm like, oh my God, oh my God, he's doing it, he's doing it. And I jump out, and what I should have done is handed my camera to Emily and let her go. What I did was absolutely go cuckoo bananas, panicked, ripped my pumps out, like while they were going. My boobs were hanging out of my bra, just in the back room. Like both of them flopped over on top of my bra, on top of my outfit, and like pouring milk out. And then I pulled the tubing, and the milk went into the tubing, into the machine, and ruined my pump. Broken. My gosh. Broken. Broke it. Was this when uh George, I guess, with Georgie? No, no, this literally like. Yeah, it was last year. Yeah, I don't want to say like too specifically, but it was last fall. Okay. Okay. So this is like Jack was like five or six months post- I'm just gonna interject this too.

SPEAKER_02

Alex is like professional long-term nursing breastfeeding mom. Like she, yeah. How long did you nurse Georgia?

SPEAKER_01

I was about to say, like, I should have given like my I keep saying I'm a 10-year wedding photographer, but I breastfed my daughter for 20 months to zero. So almost two years. My goal was one year. She's also a professional milk maid. I feel like I have like if there's one thing with motherhood that I have like got to a T, it is like breastfeeding and pumping. Yep. Like I'm pretty good about it. So this was like very this was insane. This was criminal. This was criminal. I it was genuinely postpartum brain fog plus absolute shock, panic, freaking TF out, like losing my mind over the fact that this was happening. Um, luckily, insurance paid for the pump other than like $50 when I initially got it, but this is a $600 pump. Okay. So, like if I had paid for it, like this is a wearable two-compartment machine pump that cost $600 and I ruined it in that moment. Ruined. It was like the most shocking and upsetting thing. And I had tears welling in my eyes. I couldn't believe it. And it was in that moment that I was like, here, just go. And I handed Emily my camera and she went, which is what I should have done to start. But like it's seriously, you just can't think clearly. And I'm not I'm having one of those days today. I'm the brain fog. The brain fog. It's real. Genuinely, you're just like Dululu in the moment where you're like, I can't think clearly. Like my brain, I always tell my husband, my brain can't get from point A to point B without a couple detours. Like I'm just struggling to act rationally. So that's what happened. And it honestly, the story gets worse. And like, I'm gonna cut it short, but I dumped my milk out everywhere. So I wasted the milk, I ruined the machine, and I dumped my milk all over like the catering team's personal belongings. Could it get worse than that? Could it get worse than that? I don't think it could. Their curses were down, and I like ripped the cup out. If you can like imagine the scene, if you're listening to the podcast today, and just dumped my milk. So I'm like, you know, the saying, don't cry ever spilled milk. Well, I was crying. Yeah. Doesn't apply to breast milk. No, it does not. Crying. I was like, the baby I had at home was sucking me dry and going through every ounce of milk in the freezer. And I just dumped out like eight ounces of milk all over the purses of the catering team. So that happened. That happened. I recovered it. Luckily, my insurance covered like a new machine and they shipped it out within like a couple days. That's great. So I just wasn't able to pump for like a minute. And I was like hand expressing as needed, which was kind of like a caveman style thing to do. I was like, is this what they did in the olden days? The olden days not the most efficient way to get milk out. Not efficient, but it's it's really true, and it's the reality of working moms. I'm not saying working photographers, I'm not saying working creative business owners, which I know that's who we are like targeting, but this is working mom struggles. This is a your privacy has been invaded, your time has been cut short, something else urgently needs you, and you're a mom and you're trying to work, and this is what happened. And these kind of things happen. I at this point was only in control of my reaction, which was irrational, which, you know, looking back, I'm like, I could have handled it differently, but I was genuinely very upset. I cleaned up the mess and I gathered my life, I gathered my thoughts, and I joined Emily out there, and no one noticed. There was like no laughs and coverage or anything like that. And then I had a little bit of a heart-to-heart with the DJ, and I said, listen to me and please, please let me know. But this isn't about milk. This is about the invisible labor. And I mean invisible labor of this is what I was doing behind the scenes, and this is what was going on in my brain, and this is what was happening while I was shooting a wedding. But this is the about the invisible labor that working moms carry in any industry and the toll it takes on your body and your home life. How do you this is go ahead.

SPEAKER_02

Sorry. I was gonna say, how do you feel like it has affected your? So, like obviously, wedding day is a big what am I trying to say? Words, words are hard. Words. Um brain fog. Literally. A wedding day takes a hit. Like we we just are, yeah, major brain fog. So how do you feel like it affects you creatively? Because we've talked about us being very creative people, especially like pre-babies. So how do you feel like it has affected you postpartum?

SPEAKER_01

It's hard because I um I feel like it's being a mom and especially the breastfeeding aspect, it takes so much of my energy and it takes away from so much of my life. And I'm not saying takes away like it's being robbed of me. And I'm I don't even I don't want to shine it in a negative light. Like I genuinely am I'm so proud. Proud myself. I have so much pride in that, but I do feel like, and I know we've talked about this on another episode, I feel like I can be lagging behind in the creative industry because I'm not able to put all my brain power towards being creative. I am inherently creative. Yeah. But as far as being a creative business owner, my brain power is being sucked out in the form of breast milk. It just is. Yeah. It takes such a toll on your body and your mind. And it's hard not to compare to people on social media and be like, I wish I thought of that, or I wish I had time to do that, or I could totally do that. I just don't have the Capacity to. Yeah. So it's hard, but I do try to remind myself, and that was a good question because it's I certainly think it, but I do try to remind myself that it's temporary.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I like remember when I stopped breastfeeding Georgia. Um, I waited until she was done. And one day, honestly, she just kind of quit asking and I quit offering and we just quit. And it just dried up. Like it was really not this like magical ending. It just stopped one day. Yeah. And I do think about that all the time. And I remember as soon as she quit, I genuinely was like, okay, for the first time in almost three years, yeah, my body is my own again. And I'm not worried that I'm going to eat too much cheese and it's going to affect my child's stomach. Or I can drink one extra glass of wine or have one extra drink. Um, you know, when I'm out with my husband or friends or whatever, and like it's not gonna affect my babies. But it's like your body's not yours when you're pregnant and your body's still not yours when you're breastfeeding. Yeah. So I just remember thinking, like, my body's mine, and I had not only that for my body, but also my brain. Yeah. And being like, now let me give back to myself. Yeah. Because I'm proud of what I did, but I deserve.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. We uh you talked about like not feeling as like you feel a little bit behind sometimes and like creativity and stuff. Do you feel like because I sometimes I look even at like Aria, she's almost two, and I'm like, you are so you're so creative, or even just like my relationship with her, we just look at the world differently as moms. So I would love to know, because I feel like I've experienced this since having her, like even how your your perspective has changed on a wedding day and like what you're photographing, and like the almost like the creativity that comes without having to think about being creative and like different shots you want to get and stuff like that. That's mom's mom or whoever.

SPEAKER_01

It's totally true. Not only like I feel like being a mom has added depth to the storytelling aspect of shooting weddings, I also can't watch criminal minds. I like cannot catch me watching a show that like children are affected, were like in the past. Okay, yeah, sad. But like we just watched this is totally a rabbit hole that I don't need to go down, but here I go. Here we are. We just watched All Her Fault. I'm sure you haven't seen it. I know you're not an addict, I know you're not an addictive TV watcher like I am, but Travis and I just watched All Her Fault. And if you haven't seen it, I'm not gonna spoil it for you. But the gist of the show, not a spoiler, is this mom, her son goes missing. He goes missing. And not a spoiler because it is like apparent in the first episode, he doesn't he doesn't die or anything like that. Like nothing. Yeah, but he gets kidnapped for ransom and kind of it's a whole show. Um, and it kind of has like a twist ending. It was a really, really great show, but honestly, hard watch. Yeah, hard to swallow because I just was like, oh, and the mom was great. Like I wasn't thinking like this is the mom's fault, which is kind of what the point of the show was, but I just was thinking like unimaginable and like hard to watch. And I've had it's just it's the it's the emotion, it's the depth of emotion. Like I I was telling, I was thinking about this, but motherhood, it can soften you, but it sharpens you at the same time. It's it's like I've always been an emotional person. I'm very emotional. I'm emotional in a lot of things. I'm emotional in the way I express myself. I'm emotional as a wife and sister and friend. And if Grace is gonna cry on the podcast, I'm gonna cry. Watching her cry is gonna make me cry. I'm just an emotional person. I'm an emotional mom and I express my emotions, especially to Georgia. I like to explain to her how I I do, how I'm feeling. And I'm stressed right now. This has nothing to do with what you did not cause this.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And I will talk with Daddy about it later, and everything's gonna be okay. And trying to kind of teach her that because you know, I'm like learning as an adult to regulate my own emotions, which is really hard as an emotional person, but I've always been emotional at weddings, and there's certain aspects of wedding days that just honestly just get me. Just get me. I've always cried when the mom is helping the bride in the dress.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Always.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Always like that. Just makes me so emotional. And I can't help before I was a mom, I always used to think about the moment on my wedding day.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

With my mom helping me with my dress. And like I had my, I had and still have my grandma who I'm very close with, who was also in the room and helping. And that was just like a special moment. And so when I'm witnessing it as a photographer, I'm like reliving it. Yeah. But then now as a mom and like as a girl mom, I'm watching and I'm like, that's gonna be me with my daughter, who I feel like I gave birth to yesterday and she's about to turn four. That's crazy. Crazy, criminal. And I'm like, it's just flown by and it just adds this depth of okay, this is their one and only time doing it. You know, it just adds the importance and the emotion of it. And I feel like I photograph it differently now because it has a new meaning. Yeah, that's so good. If that were me in Georgia, how would I want it to be photographed? That's so good. Emotional. Don't think about it with you and Aria, because if you start crying, then I'm gonna cry. And I just don't feel like doing that right now. I'm like, I'm honestly so tired from last night that like if I start, I don't think I'll stop crying. So don't make me do it. Don't make me do it. But I do think uh it adds to the storytelling, which you know is all that I'm trying to do on wedding days, of course, capture every moment and have you or Angel, my second shooters, getting the moments in between. But we're all moms now. Angel that second shoots with me too is also a mom. She has two little girls. Sweet. And she feels it too. She feels it too. We talk about it a lot. She doesn't have a boy though, and you and I have boys. And then, like, the boy mom thing, too, is crazy. He's just being I'm telling you. So yeah. And people say different it's different, it's different. And people told me it and they warned me about it, and I was like, enough. And then I was like, okay, we get it. You like love your son, but then like now I have one of each. So I'm like really seeing things through a different lens on wedding day of like imagining myself as the mom in this standpoint.

SPEAKER_02

And like mother of the groom, even mother of the groom and mother of the bride.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. You and I are going to have both both experiences. And um, it kind of like gives you, it teaches you like a little more like grace. Sorry to use your name, like as, but for the lack of a better word, grace, but it teaches you that grace of like think about the heightened emotions. So, you know, um, I'm not like I said, this is just personal experience. I'm not targeting anyone, I'm not thinking of anyone specifically. But when I do have issues on wedding day, it is typically a mom. It is mother of the bride or mother of the groom. And that is typically who is giving me pushback or adding unnecessary stress to my day. Not unnecessary to them, but unnecessary to me. Usually it is the fact that they're just out of the loop more than the bride and groom in wedding party. Yeah. But it has taught me to have more grace for those characters throughout that day because of the heightened emotions. And it's like, this is your child's one and only day. And they have invested all the time, most likely all the finances for the day. Yeah. And how important it is to them. And it really makes me take a step back. And before being a mom, of course, I can only think about my mom. It'd be like, you're annoying me. And I know that my mom is going to listen to this podcast. And like I will remember on the wedding day when I like snapped at my mom in one heightened emotion moment, but she did it to me too. So it was okay. But I'm like, you change from seeing things as a daughter and shift into seeing things as a mom. And I think um it gives you like a new found sense of like how it is, how it actually is, and gives you more patience for them. Do you agree or no? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

No, I totally agree with that. And also I feel like uh we, you know, uh we're learning a a lot of this in real time. But at the same time, like I'm almost two years into being a mom. You're almost four years into being a mom. Right. And so like we're not brand, like we're pretty spanking new, but we're not brand new. Like we didn't just have a baby yesterday, even though it feels like it. So like you sound like you're super present at home and you're super present at work. And obviously, there are within the wedding photography industry ebbs and flows to seasons of being super on in weddings and client discovery calls and booking engagements and things like that. So, what are some practical things that you have kind of like put in place, or just even if they just happen, maybe you weren't super intentional about it. It just kind of like you just had it figured out. But things that happen during slow season versus busy season and like realities of editing with a baby and two kids that don't nap at the same time, and like what practically, like what does that rhythm look like for you? And also like kind of your I feel like we touched on this a little bit, but like your philosophy, I guess, going into okay, these are my boundaries, yeah, and these are the exceptions, but not the norms. Like, what does that kind of look like?

SPEAKER_01

Heavy on boundaries, big on boundaries. Um, I it's hard. The hardest part for me is that I am professional. I like don't want to speak out of turn and say, like, I am professional, but I am professional. You are. I like really pride myself in maintaining a professional appearance. And one pet peeve that I have is when people like overshare about their personal life, like through their business. And I don't mean like I'm having a baby and like this is how it's gonna change. Like that is totally normal. I mean like if someone emails me and I'm not able to get to it for two days and I'm like, well, my kid was sick and my dog threw up and my car was totaled and my grandpa's in the hospital, and like oversharing why things are delayed is honestly my pet peeve because it just is, but it's hard because I want to maintain the professional front. Right. And I wish I were a corporation like Walmart.com that could immediately respond to someone, or if someone I get an email all the time that's like, can you hop on a quick call? And it's like, no, I can't hop on a quick call. Right. Because I'm currently breastfeeding a baby while eating up mac and cheese for example.

SPEAKER_02

Explaining yes, yes, and it's like explaining those expectations on the front end too.

SPEAKER_01

I think make a world of difference. Totally. So just that's why I was saying, like big on boundaries. I love to have a consultation call. And I'm serious. I know I talked about this with pumping, but my car is like my safe haven. I don't know if you go. Like, I'm like, I love my car, and I will take a consultation call in the car. And sometimes it's running an errand or just getting a sonic drink, or sometimes I sit in the driveway. Oh no, I need sonic now. No, I need swig. Well, I don't have one close to me. You're closer to the city than I am. I know I've been thinking about swig. I will also have to have a sonic drink today. I've like been trying not to drink Coke, but I'm gonna have to have one today. And I'm like, but who cares? That doesn't matter. I'm having one today. The boundaries. And so during that consultation call, I think it is important, no matter who you are and what your life looks like right now, to set the boundary of as a reminder. I'm one person.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I'm one person. And maybe I'm like not gonna make this deeper than it is. I always like to tell myself it's not that deep. It's not that deep. But setting it as a mom too.

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

This is my boundary. This is the parameters of which I can serve this family and my business. But my boundaries currently, um, when I'm discussing brides, is I have office hours on Mondays and Wednesdays. Yeah. So if you want to call, if um, and I I can email more than that, but I really like to say I'll limit my email to that time. Yeah. It's not totally true. But in the case that life is actually life on the outside of that, yeah, my office hours are Monday and Wednesday. Yeah. And that's when I'm like genuinely available at my computer. And that that also releases the guilt, which I know I've discussed already. The guilt in my brain of like, this is the time I have set aside for my work. And if that means I'm sitting on the floor with my laptop while Jack is crawling on me, but I'm replying to my emails, that's fine. Because like I know this is ending. Like I have this office hour boundary set, this time limit for myself, and then it'll end and then I'm back into mom life.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But it's I have no guilt serving my brides during that time, knowing it's gonna end and then continuing to serve my family. But yeah, what I think is important is knowing the boundary and verbalizing and communicating it to your client. Yeah. That'll change everything.

SPEAKER_02

I think I'm I'm someone who just like really, really, really loves to work. And I like would work 24-7 before I had kids just because I could. Yeah. And it's really hard to like not let that seep into my motherhood. Like there are exceptions, but I think what you're saying, like you have to set those boundaries for other people, but they're also for yourself. And if you like to work, that has to become like a discipline and a muscle you have to work to like not let that happen. Like you have to be your own boss, not just to like do more, but actually do less sometimes.

SPEAKER_01

And I've actually like realized as a mom that setting this time for myself helps too. So I've never been a routine person. Like, I I'm addicted to watching TikToks. Yeah. I love watching TikToks of people that's like yawn, stretch. Here I am, waking up at 5 a.m. And then I make my coffee and then I eat the same thing, and then I do this, and I take a shower and I do the same skin routine and I put on the same outfit in a different color. And I'm like, that just ain't me. I will sleep until every minute I get, I like crave something new. And sometimes I door dash a box of donuts, and sometimes I am only eating egg whites, and most days I'm driving through McDonald's. So I'm like, it just depends. I'm not a person of routine, but yeah, setting the boundary as a mom has helped me so much too. Like I can be overwhelmed by the stress and the to-do list of motherhood. I like to call myself like, oh gosh, what did I say? Oh, the like domestic engineer. I call myself like the chief domestic officer, domestic engineer. Sometimes, like to my husband, I'm like, this is my full-time job, like being a mom too. But I can release the guilt and stress in my brain by having the boundaries of being a mom as well. Being like, okay, I don't need to stress about the laundry because I'm going to finish it between seven and eight. Yeah. I'm gonna keep washing and drying it and piling it up. And then at seven o'clock after Jack's asleep, I know that I'll have the time and that's when I'll get it done. And so yeah, kind of like office hours, but mom hours. Yes. Cause it works, but it works good for me. And then I'm like, I don't have to stress about it because I know that I've allotted the time for it. Yeah. Later on. And nothing's more frustrating, and this goes for weddings or any type of work, any type of creative entrepreneurial work, as well as like being a mom. But like nothing is more frustrating than when you have it in your mind of I want to accomplish this one thing and not having the time to do it. Yeah. And like setting Jack on the floor and he's just crying and starving for my attention, not actually starving, but starving for attention. And Georgia, who's been holding a book that she wants me to read, and I'm like, just let mommy finish the laundry. And it's like, it doesn't matter right now. Yeah, it doesn't. It doesn't matter right now. And just setting that aside for later. And it's a little bit less dramatic as far as the work stuff. Like it does always matter. I know it all, it all does have the matter. It does matter in some way, but it's not an emergency, right? And I remind myself a lot that as a business owner and as a mom, it's just not an emergency.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And the packing and the preparedness, that's what helps. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um, recently I've kind of adapted that same mindset, like you're saying, like it's not, it's not an emergency. And it's not I spend so much of the day, like truly, and this, I mean, this isn't me being like, oh, pat on the back, I'm such a good mom, but I've really tried to be super present when they're awake and like not work.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And not like turning on Miss Rachel. That's a new one. That's a new one. And like Aria has way less meltdowns, and she's so much nicer to me most of the time. But it with that being present comes a lot more mess, probably a full sink of dirty dishes by the time Andrew gets home. And thankfully, he is like kind of a clean freak and has to have a clean. I mean, maybe that's a normal person thing, and I'm just super dirty, but like not a Travis thing. He has to have the sink completely, like he shuts down the kitchen. The kitchen goes night night, and he has to wipe every single thing down. And he never I'm marrying Andrew.

SPEAKER_01

I lit literally am marrying Andrew. Like he, I'm meant to marry him. Travis and I both do not have that thing. Like we're like, that's a future me problem. That's tomorrow's problem. That's not today's problem. I don't care.

SPEAKER_00

It's so good.

SPEAKER_02

No, like just practical, like it's not, it's really not an emergency. And yeah, when you get to it, you'll get to it. Yes.

SPEAKER_01

So yes. And as a business owner, allowing myself a little more cushion time has been what's most helpful as a mom, just reminding myself it's not an emergency. Yeah. But as a business owner, like I know I said I have calculated it takes me about 16 hours to edit a full wedding day. So realistically, I can work two to three hours maximum without like burning out. And this is this is post-bedtime hours. Yeah. Typically starting around 8 p.m. Okay. So about 10 p.m. is when the lights are on, but no one's home inside of my brain, if you know what I mean. And um, that's usually when I need to shut the lights off. And so I just try to backtrack thinking like, okay, if I'm gonna work two hours, I need eight days and I schedule those eight days in. But honestly, I'll schedule maybe 11 or 12.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And think, like, okay, I just had the worst day of my life and I'm so tired. And for example, on the day that I'm recording this, I think I had about three to four hours of sleep last night. Yeah. So I'm already knowing that tonight is not gonna be the night to try to crush three hours of like productive work.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But maybe like get a couple things done on my laptop from the bed and then shut her down and respond to my body's need for rest. Yeah. But as a mom, it's not an emergency. As a business owner, building in the cushion time so that I still can get things done and I am not getting too far behind. So the most important thing to me is servicing my clients and making sure that they're heard by me and that the attention's giving. And they won't ever hear from me, well, I'm tired because I'm a mom. Because a lot of my clients also are. So they don't care about my problems. And it's not that they don't care, but I just don't need to be making excuses. But you don't need to be everywhere to be impactful, in my opinion. Yeah. But you do need to be present.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So setting those boundaries, reminding yourself it isn't an emergency, giving yourself grace and the cushion time that you need is honestly like my greatest advice. And I know we've said this before, but I want to reiterate we don't have the solution. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

We do not have the solution to these problems. If if actually, if you're out there listening and you have the solution to our we're blogging twice for help.

SPEAKER_01

Message us if you have the answer. But we don't have the we don't have the answers. We just do have some experience in our wanting to have these conversations in this industry. But we are working on building a sustainable life. And in this current phase of my life, this is where I'm at. I feel split some days. And some of my wedding days, I am genuinely counting down until when I can get home. And some days I'm counting down to when I can leave to get to my wedding and just enjoy the buzz of all that's happening and just the excitement and be able to put my brain fully focused on something that maybe isn't directly affecting me, right? But someone else's life and enjoying the break, which is why I think I watch reality TV and Real Housewives. Of it's literally escapism from life and stress and jumping into the next thing, right? Yeah. But both things can be true. You can you can be split and you can you can love both things, but being present is the most important. Being present for your kids and your family and being present on the workday and setting up those rhythms and workflows is what's gonna help you do that, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_02

It really is a tension. Like it's not going away. Yeah, it's not a problem to solve. We just have to like maintain, manage that tension. And it's gonna shift. Like sometimes things are gonna be like super business heavy and sometimes things are gonna feel like super mom heavy. But I think like you've you've given kind of and I can relate to so much of it, but also like not have not experienced some of it yet, or maybe in the like the depth that you have. But uh just giving like real life examples, and again, like you were saying, not to say like, oh my gosh, this is so hard and don't do it, but just know that you're not the only one experiencing it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and you're not alone in it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and like being a mom and being a business owner, small business owner can be super isolating sometimes. But so true. I think that's That's that's even part of like why I felt that this was a need in the first place. Maybe there's 12 other podcasts like this that I don't know about. But I think there's just kind of this gap where like women are talking about all of the things, but we need this reminder of like you're not a you're not alone. And there is light at the end of the tunnel. And then it might be dark for a little bit, and then there's light at the tunnel, end of the tunnel again. Yeah, just uh living life as it happens.

SPEAKER_01

No, that is absolutely like such a good word. Could not appreciate that. And I do like to remind that, like in my good times and the bad times, because I'm like, misery loves company. I'm like, this sucks so bad. And then I'm like, but I know I'm not the only one. That's like this sucks so bad. Like it could, it's both thangs, but um I want to like bring back the point full circle if you are a mom, if you're a photographer, if you're a creative business owner, if you're none of the above and you're listening, if you're my mom, hi mom, hi mom. My mom like loves loves the podcast. So I know that she's gonna be tuned in, but hi mom. Um, if you're all the things, um, I I just want to say, as a photographer, not only are you watching this generational love story like happen right in front of you and you're documenting it, but you're also photographing mothers and they're watching their daughter and you're watching your son as the groom and become husband and wife and enter into this like holy covenant and such a special is only once in a lifetime, and you're experiencing it as a mom and a photographer, or you know, um, fill in the fill in the blanks for your own industry as well. You you understand what I'm saying. And it this is applicable to all creative industries, other industries as well, but you're also living one in real time. Yes. You're documenting this love story, but you're living one in real time. So don't forget it to be present in that moment, but set those boundaries without apology. I want to encourage you to take your pump breaks without shame, wherever you're comfortable to do so, and setting up where you can. And I want to encourage you to have your big dreams without shrinking yourself and without shrinking what's in your brain. And I want to encourage you to have the presence without perfection. And I know I've been hitting on that. We are not perfect people. Yeah. Grace and I are not perfect. I promise you we're not perfect, those of you listening. And don't strive for the perfection. But the presence is what is going to matter the most to your children and to your clients. But just a reminder, and I want to finish up with this, and Grace, if you have any final thoughts too, but you don't have to choose between being a present mother and a passionate creative. You just have to build it intentionally. You have to figure out the rhythms and the flows and the schedules and the timelines intentionally for what works in your current phase of life. It's going to continue to change, and you have permission and you have our support and love behind you to continue to change it as you need to. And that's my mom word of the day. Say less. Say less. Actually, I have never said more in my life. We're almost at like an hour.

SPEAKER_02

That's so good. I had I literally nothing else to add. That was so good.

SPEAKER_01

We're so excited for the next episode, guys. We have so much coming. And if you guys have anything you want to add, please let us know on social media, on Grace's on mine, on our podcast page. And we want to hear from you guys anything that feels like a hot button topic to discuss. Yeah. Until next time. Bye.